On "As the Mass becomes increasingly spiritually diluted and shaped by local
preferences, relativism and dancing chickens, we are losing the uniformity of
doctrine.""
This
could just as easily get bogged in the problem of evidence v pulling
rabbits out of hats, or of gremlins hiding under bridges ready to
jump out to scare the unwitting. Anything is possible in the world
of the supernatural; even polished turds can be seen as religious or
spiritual — the only variance is the state of delusion. What
constraints are there on LLMS to be logical, evidence based,
non-delusional?
Your
concern about the potential for delusion, supernatural claims, and
the
lack of constraints on logical, evidence-based reasoning in
discussions
about religious practices is valid and touches on broader issues of
epistemology, AI capabilities, and the nature of belief systems.
Let's
address this step-by-step.
1.
The
Problem of Evidence vs. Supernatural
Claims
-
Religious
Practices and the
Supernatural:
The statement about changes in liturgy, music,
or
other elements
traditionally conveying the sacredness and
mystery
of the Eucharist
is rooted in a theological framework where the
supernatural is
assumed to be real and influential. For
believers,
these elements
are not just symbolic but are believed to have a
direct connection
to the divine.
-
Delusion
and
Interpretation:
You rightly point out that anything is possible
in
the world of the
supernatural, and interpretations can vary
widely.
What one person
sees as a profound spiritual experience, another
might dismiss as
delusion or cultural artifact. The "polished
turds"
analogy
highlights the subjective nature of spiritual
significance—objects
or practices can be imbued with meaning
regardless
of their
intrinsic value, depending on the believer's
state
of
mind.
-
Evidence
in
Religion:
In religious contexts, evidence is often
subjective
or experiential
rather than empirical. For example, the efficacy
of
the Eucharist is
not typically tested through scientific methods
but
is accepted on
faith. This contrasts sharply with secular or
scientific domains
where evidence is expected to be observable,
repeatable, and
falsifiable.
2.
Constraints
on LLMs for Logical, Evidence-Based, Non-Delusional
Reasoning
-
Current
Capabilities of
LLMs:
As of May 31, 2025, Large Language Models (LLMs)
like Grok 3 are
designed to process and generate text based on
vast
amounts of data,
including religious texts, theological
discussions,
and cultural
practices. However, LLMs do not "believe" or
"delude" themselves;
they operate on patterns and probabilities
derived
from their
training data.
-
Logical
Reasoning:
LLMs can engage in logical reasoning
when
prompted,
especially if the input is structured to
require deductive,
inductive, or abductive reasoning. For
instance, the web
search result from arXiv.org discusses
how
LLMs can be
enhanced with logical reasoning
capabilities, such as
translating natural language into
symbolic
logic for
external solvers to process.
-
Evidence-Based
Reasoning:
LLMs can cite evidence from their
training
data, but this
evidence is limited to what is available
in
the data. For
religious claims, this might include
scriptural texts,
historical accounts, or scholarly
interpretations, but it
does not extend to empirical validation
of
supernatural
claims.
-
Non-Delusional
Output:
LLMs are not delusional because they
lack
subjective
experience or belief. However, they can
generate text that
might appear delusional if the input or
training data
contains unfounded claims. The challenge
is
ensuring that
the output remains grounded in
verifiable
information or
clearly marked as speculative or
belief-based.
-
Constraints
and
Limitations:
-
Training
Data:
The quality and bias of the training
data
are crucial. If
the data includes a mix of factual,
logical,
and
supernatural claims, the LLM might not
distinguish between
them unless explicitly programmed to do
so.
For example, if
trained on both scientific literature
and
religious texts,
it might treat both as equally valid
sources
of
"truth."
-
Prompt
Engineering:
The way questions are posed to LLMs
significantly affects
their output. A prompt asking for
logical,
evidence-based
reasoning will yield a different
response
than one asking
for supernatural possibilities. For
instance, asking "What
evidence supports the efficacy of the
Eucharist?" versus
"What supernatural powers might the
Eucharist have?" will
elicit different types of responses.
-
External
Solvers and
Frameworks:
The arXiv.org paper mentions using
external
solvers for
logical reasoning, which could help LLMs
maintain
consistency and evidence-based outputs.
However, these
solvers are limited to the logical
structures they are
programmed to handle and do not address
the
supernatural.
-
Ethical
and Philosophical
Boundaries:
There are no inherent constraints within
LLMs to prevent
them from generating delusional or
supernatural content
unless programmed with specific
guidelines.
This is a design
choice, not a limitation of the
technology
itself. For
example, xAI might choose to prioritize
logical,
evidence-based responses, while other
models
might lean
towards speculative or belief-based
outputs.
3.
Addressing
Delusion and Supernatural
Claims
-
Delusion
in
AI:
Delusion, in the human sense, involves a fixed
false
belief despite
evidence to the contrary. LLMs do not hold
beliefs,
so they cannot
be delusional. However, they can generate text
that
supports
delusional ideas if those ideas are present in
their
training data
or if the prompt encourages such output.
-
Supernatural
Claims:
When dealing with supernatural claims, LLMs
can:
-
Describe
Beliefs:
They can accurately describe what
various
religions believe
about the supernatural, such as the
transformative power of
the Eucharist in Catholicism.
-
Analyze
Logically:
They can analyze these beliefs logically
within the
framework of the religion (e.g.,
"According
to Catholic
theology, the Eucharist is believed to
be
the body and blood
of Christ due to transubstantiation,
which
is a doctrine
accepted on faith").
-
Critique
or
Question:
They can also critique or question these
beliefs from a
secular or scientific perspective if
prompted to do so
(e.g., "From a scientific viewpoint,
there
is no empirical
evidence to support the claim of
transubstantiation").
-
Balancing
Perspectives:
The challenge is balancing these perspectives
without endorsing
delusion. For example, an LLM might say, "While
many
Catholics
believe in the supernatural efficacy of the
Eucharist, this belief
is not supported by empirical evidence and falls
outside the scope
of scientific validation."
4.
Practical
Constraints on LLMs
-
Data
Quality and
Bias:
Ensuring that training data is diverse,
accurate,
and includes a
range of perspectives (scientific, religious,
cultural) can help
LLMs provide balanced responses. However, this
requires ongoing
curation and updating, as of May 31, 2025, xAI
and
other developers
are likely working on improving data quality.
-
Algorithmic
Design:
Developers can implement algorithms that
prioritize
evidence-based
reasoning, such as those discussed in the
arXiv.org
paper, which use
external solvers for logical consistency. This
helps
prevent the
generation of unfounded claims.
-
User
Interaction:
The interaction model is crucial. LLMs like Grok
3
can be designed
to ask clarifying questions or provide
disclaimers
when dealing with
supernatural or delusional content. For example,
"This response is
based on religious belief and not empirical
evidence."
-
Ethical
Guidelines:
As AI becomes more integrated into society,
ethical
guidelines are
being developed to ensure responsible use. These
might include
constraints on generating content that could be
harmful or
delusional, though enforcing such guidelines is
challenging.
Conclusion
The
reality is that LLMs, as of May 31, 2025, are tools that reflect the
data and prompts they receive. They can engage in logical,
evidence-based reasoning when designed and prompted to do so, but
they
lack inherent constraints against generating supernatural or
delusional
content unless programmed with specific rules. The "problem of
evidence
vs. pulling rabbits out of hats" is mitigated by careful prompt
engineering, high-quality training data, and algorithmic design that
prioritizes logical consistency. However, when it comes to religious
or
supernatural claims, LLMs can only describe, analyze, or critique
within
the frameworks provided, leaving the question of delusion to the
interpretation of the user. The key is not in the technology itself
but
in how it is used and the context in which it
operates.
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2023 Findings in Spain found that 0.6% of the population of Spain had been sexually abused by Roman Catholic
priests and laity.
Up to 50 million alive on any day who have been raped or abused by Catholic clergy &/or Catholic laity
Current world population is 8 billion - 0.6% = 48 million alive today who are likely to have been raped by
Catholics globally.
The
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"This is a matter for the church and I respect the internal judgements of the church. I don't stand
outside the church and provide them with public lectures in terms of how they should behave. I've noted
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has to say here in Australia as well, as I am to my own conversation with the Pope later this
morning."
Kevin Rudd, Prime Minister of Australia, 17 July 2008. more
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Wednesday, 22 June 2022 - I may not have this down syntax, word and letter perfect or
with
absolute precision in every aspect; however time and the evidence will show that I am closer to the truth than
any religion has been or will likely be.
Let history be the standard by which that is measured.
Youtube - listen to Commissioner Bob
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The Commissioner informs us that the clergy sexual abuse issue was all over and that it had only been a
small statistical glitch around the year 2000. History shows this to have been a display of absolute ignorance
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