Hey John, this is Tim Card, I'm the founder and moderator of Ex-Catholics. I have been getting some messages about your posts lately which I tend to agree with. We all know the Church isn't great, there is no need to remind us of that fact in that group. Actually, the continued reminders of the bad that was and is being done is counter-prodcutive for a lot of people. We are trying to move beyond the church, not continue to remind ourselves of why we left. If you could refrain from that kind of post that would be fantastic. Thanks so much for understanding.
Today at 08:14

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If you care to point out to me any of my posts which are not factual I will gladly consider removing them.
You can now call each other and see information such as Active Status and when you've read messages.

Tim
I never said not factual. I said not helpful.

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Perhaps a name change for the group might be helpful for those who seek th etruth

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If you don't mind can you direct me to some of my posts which are not helpful and if you have resaons for that that would help me moderate my wording to be more appropriate fort he group

Tim
My concern isn't that what you're posting isn't true, it's that it is creating an atmosphere that is far too negative. We all know the what the church is. This isn't a place to be reminded of that.

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It is a group called ex-catholics. I am struggling to understand which posts are not appropriate

Tim
I'm not arguing this with you. I didn't mean to imply this was a debate. It was a polite instruction thst the tone you are bringing isn't what i am looking to have here.

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I understand what you are saying. You agree that my posts are factual and that a ''lot'' (how many is that?) find it counter productive. You have the posts, you have the responses from a lot who find it counter-productive and I am simply asking for you to inform me so that I can moderate my post for the group. I do not in any way consider that to be a debate; I consider that to be an appropriate response to your message.

Tim
I am saying that i am not getting into the conversation. The tone is not what i am cultivating here. It's not the right place for what you have been sharing.

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You come to me with a request to moderate my posts. I ask you to point out which posts? You claim That I am argumentative, then you claim I am debating, then you pose your request as a polite instruction - I ask you again to please point out which of my posts are inappropriate and why so that I can follow your initial request of moderating my post to suit the group. In doing that I have been neither argumentative or debating. You come to ''a polite instruction'' only after the fallacies that come with argumentative or debating.

Please indicate which post you find difficulty with and why and I shall review and moderate as per your initial request.

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Then you do not want to get into a conversation that you started. Which is it Tim? What do you actually want of me?

Tim
I wanted you to read the room.

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Do I have to go back over my IM and posts to point out the encouraging and supportive responses that I have received from group members?

Tim
You don't have to do anything but tone it down. That's it

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Which posts do not meet your standards and why do they not meet your standards despite them being factual?

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If you are unable to come to that as a minimum please let me know so I can post on that as a subject perhaps.

Tim
Ok. Again i am not going to debate every single post. I am telling you that as the moderator and owner of this group i think you are not reading the room.

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And how should I read a room in a group who has labelled themselves as ex-Catholics? Ex-Catholics who do not want the truth does not seem appropriate for a new name. Sure you have that power to moderate as you see fit. When you can be clear and provide something to back up your request to moderate my factual posts please let me know.

Tim
Ok you're done

Tim
Sorry man

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I am not debating - perhaps you need to use more suitable wording rew that

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I have lost nothing - my posts remain factual and you want them moderated

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and you are unwilling to provide reasons for that

Tim
there is a difference between being factual and appropriate. I hope someday you learn the difference. I am sorry, I do not think that you are a beneficial addition to the group, I wish you all the best.

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Please stop being so Catholic with your repeated apologies to someone speaking the truth with facts.

Tim
i don't even know what that means

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I understand that

Tim
Good bye, I wish you all the best and that you find the peace you are looking for

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Very Catholic of you. As I said previously perhaps a more appropriate name for the group would be timely.

Tim
I will determine what is timely or not for the group I formed and moderate. If you want to start something of your own, that would be a great idea.

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I have done that - perhaps you would like to check over it and give me some feedback?

Tim
Nope I'm good. Thanks though

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I do understand the difficulty of the durability of Catholic teaching. Never the less anytime you feel up to it I would be grateful to have your feedback Stealing the life and human rights of Catholic children; a field guide

Tim
What do you mean the durability of catholic teaching?

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That can be difficult and confronting for some who have never challenged those aspects of Catholic teaching which was embedded through the simultaneous use of threat, intimidation and death all of which are deeply traumatic leaving lifelong psychological injuries for many. I don't do that as a debate or other than in conversation if that interest you.

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The link above is a good starting point as it is based 100% on known science.

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The difference between that and here and now is that one is science and evidence based and the other is emotional baggage from a disrupted childhood.

Tim
Again, I think you are misreading the room. I am not saying what you brought up was not factual, or important, only that it was the inappropriate forum for that particular discussion.

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I can go further and provide a link to a page I wrote some time back pointing out the flaw in what you are proposing to a survivor of rape and abuse by nuns from age 3.5 onwards.

Tim
again, not saying what you are bringing up isn't important, just that the forum I created is not the appropriate place for it. If you don't like that, thats fine. You don't need to agree with me.

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YTou reference particular discussions. Once again I ask that point those out to with an indication as to how they are inappropriate

Tim
And I am saying in the group that I created, I felt your tone and approach was inappropriate. I don't need to prove myself to you.

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So important things, factual things, truth, science and evidence are inappropriate?????

Tim
No, that again is not what I said.

Tim
What I said was I didn't care for your tone.

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Then you need to point out which posts and why they are inappropriate

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Thats is a personal matter which should not swell over into your work as a moderator

Tim
No, that is where you are wrong. It is my group, not yours. If I think that your tone and attitude are inappropriate that is my call, not yours.

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If you are unable to voice your concerns clearly please let me know and I will adjust my conversation to suit your level perhaps

Tim
Now you are just being insulting and belittling.

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The pope said that once I think - might have been Benny the pope who almost spoke the truth

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I am still leaning towards renaming of the group as an appropriate response

Tim
Again, I do not care what you are leaning towards, It is not your group. I do not feel that you are a beneficial addition to the group, and have already removed you.

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Such little power for you in the face of the global clergy abuse crisis.

I am always one to take up such challenges on behalf of those abused and silenced by ignorance and illmanaged emotions of existing and ex-Catholics.

Tim
Again. Not that what you're saying isn't factual just that Mt group is not the forum for your fight.

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Doing the dirty work of the Catholic Church does bring some rewards in a weird and unusual way

Tim
Again. Not that what you're saying isn't factual just that Mt group is not the forum for your fight.

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It's a small grasp on very little power - wield it however you want. Your repeated statement re ownership reminds me of a group of Catholics in New York who became upset about something similar and they too used Freudian phrases like yours - in her case her mantra was ''Leave my victims alone'' which of course we never did and fortunately that group crumbled very quickly

Tim
What do you hope to accomplish by continuing to argue with me?

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It was one that NYPD felt obliged to step in to stop the exploitation of ''her vic
Tims''

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You can leave the conversation at any time

Tim
Funny. I have politely tried to end the conversation at least twice now.

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I understand that

Tim
And yet you, you persist.

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Let us call the above your last word on this matter

Tim
I truly wish you the best.

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I do not accept Catholic derived fake flatery such as that

Tim
Take it or leave it, i don't care. It has nothing to do with anything catholic. It's good will towards you. Nothing more.

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.... see above comment of mine

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Can I suggest remaing to Catholics in Denial?

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*remaing - am sure you will allow my spellin mistake

Tim
You can. It doesn't matter though

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renamimg

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It will

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Give it a little time

Tim
I don't know why you think that being insulting and belittling is going to get you anywhere.

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I am not being insulting in any way. I am simply proposing that you will find your way down that path regardless of how you moderate the group.

Tim
Ok.

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Based on the evidence and past experience of some uncountable number of exCatholcs

Tim
And once more for the cheap seats.... It's not that what you are fighting for is wrong. Only that my little corner of Facebook isn't the battlefield for your war.

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Catholics in Denial seems an appropriate name at this juncture

Tim
For what? I'm not denying anything except your place at the table

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Perhaps Comedic Catholics could be better suited

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Did you want want to try for a third time to end this conversation?

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Freud has the answer for that

Tim
I've archived it multi times but you keep coming back for more

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Can I have the last word on that?

Tim
You seem incapable of not

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Thanks. I was going to suggest that next
Time you find yourself in a similar situation it would be better if you did not come to a conversation with so many buttons ready and available to push, but then again it maybe due to the misnaming of the group.

Tim
Well i hope that makes you feel better

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iT ACTUALLY LEAVES ME FEELING SAD FOR YOU

Tim
Oooh. All caps now.

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?? Always Catholic - if you can't refute something jump on an offer to point out a prepared opportunity for you to digress, divert and to deny

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One-upmanship is not a good trait to be found often in those who were indoctrinated intothe Catholic religion

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They seem to specialise in the minutae instead of the reality of the global abuse by clergy

Tim
Again what are you hoping too accomplish by continuing this conversation.

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I thought you were leaving several
Times

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You say you have been trying to do that since a dozen or more comments back

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I do have a last request if that is OK

Tim
I have said goodbye, wished you well, told you i removed you from the group. You keep feeling the need to have the last word. And continue to get more and more insulting as it goes on. So again, i wish you welll

Tim
You're going to do what you want regardless of how i answer.

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.. see above again

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On a different note - the global energy crisis - do you think this might be helpful
Hell as an Energy Source - Resolve the Worlds Energy Crisis Proposal to the Christian world to turn the other cheek and to take positive and assertive action through turning the resources of Hell over to the production of energy for the people of the world.

We aim to make this a down payment and deposit from the Christian world to all those abused by clergy and religion by inviting your friends to get involved in this real humanitarian work.

The world needs energy badly and it simply seems to be wrong to me that religions can cling to such a resource for the exclusive use of burning in these eternal fires those who do not agree with them - ask your Christian friends to turn the other cheek and to pitch in on converting Hell to supply the worlds energy needs for eternity.

Tim
Hahaha that would be something.

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Perhaps you could post that in your group on my behalf

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also nice to see the Human side of you Tim

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or Atheist Refuge for Survivors of Sexual and Ritual Abuse by the Religious Community

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perhapsGlobal Declaration of a Public Moral Danger to our Children and Menace to Society :: News and Views of those molested by the Catholic Church & proceedings of the Royal Commission molestedcatholic.com

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Maybe September 1 - Never again september12009.com suits you better

Tim
I am also not the battlefield for your fight.

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Probably why I didn't post these to the group previously - there are more to choose from like SHUNNED MOLESTED CATHOLICS
We expose the Jesuit CODE Engineered Catholic controlled Legal System ''RED MASS'' (Judge Rudolph T Randa) and Catholic controlled Law Enforcement ''BLUE MASS'' (US Federal Marshalls) Gangsters that allow and protect Tax Exempt False Insane Lunatic GODFRAUD Religious Teachings Clergy SAFETY VIOLATIONS.

The Same Clergy Allowed by Current 2013 Homeland Security Laws to ABUSE US KIDS.

We are www.molestedcatholic.com and we continue MELTING DOWN the VATICAN.

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Have you read the extreme oath of the Jesuits - there is a copy in the Library of congress that is also available online.

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I always enjoy a read of some of the syphilis riddled popes down through history like Pope John XII (955-964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Tim
Yeah. Nobody is arguing that the church is great here

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He was a moderate = there are better examples of course

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So the rape of millions of children, women and man on a global scale is not the real issue.

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Perhaps a journey through just the syphiliytic popes would be a good series to post

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or you could confine that to murderers, child rapists or rapists of women

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All popes of course as if you were to add in cardinals, bishops, etc on down to nuns and priests butthat would be too long for most

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BTW - shooting the messenger is something that came as a part of your Catholic education; that is usually accompanied by a fear of the full spectrum of human sexuality and goers all the way to being a moderator on a group of supposed ex-Catholics

Tim
Oh good. We're back to insulting me

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A short one would be to just do those popes who raped their own children

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If I wer intent on insulting you I would not use so many words as I have done here

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also - drop that Catholic feature of prepending the opposite to what you are thinking ''good'' now that you yhink I am insulting you ...

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Thats just so Freudian

Tim
Well this has been a fruitless and silly waste of time, though it has been fun watching you try to get a rise out of me, but i think it's time to move on for good.

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Is that your last word on this matter or should I expect something that goes to the posts that caused you and a ''lot'' of others so much distress?

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btw - Thanks as now I can genuinely say that I am no longer just any ex-Catholic

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